Sage
The Sage is a somewhat "transcendent" archetype, something many people attempt to be but seldom are. The Sage is one who always knows the right thing to do, and always does it, defining "the right thing" as that which contributes most to the overall health of a given system, and defining "health" as that quality which allows a system to persist and improve. Contrary to popular belief, the Sage does not get bogged down by complicated rules of conduct. The Sage always understands what rules operate in any given situation, but this understanding is so thorough as to allow the Sage to also know all the exceptions, loopholes, assumptions, and provisions. The Sage frequently surprises people because others constantly attempt to place the Sage in categories within which the Sage could not possibly fit. For the Sage is One with the Universe, and as such cannot be made to fit into a box of any size or shape. The Sage is beyond youth, but far from decrepit.
Since this archetype is less "invoked" than it is "strived for" there aren't really any drawbacks of note, although those who seriously aspire to become Sages are often drawn to hermitage.
delicious
diggSagacity and Hermitude
When I think of why the Sage might become a Hermit goes along the lines of the balance between self and other. Being one with the universe would mean the Sage would be constantly having to challenge the boxes that others are attempting to put the Sage into. It can be an exhausting thing. There is a temptation to see that the boxes are limiting, when indeed it seems to me that if you are "one with the universe" a Sage could see the power of the boxes and how to use them to an advantage toward a bigger goal.
I suppose though, it would be a common fault (if one were Sage-like) to want to help many, and thus they may be inspired to deplete their own reserve through their own faith in the universe... which might lead to that whole isolation and shouldering too much responsibility. Their hermitude related to the distortion of other.
It could be though, that this is looking at the short term and in the bigger picture this is perhaps what it might take to make a balance in the long run. If the Sage is making this kind of sacrifice, they ought to have an incredible knowledge of this bigger Truth in order to know what they are doing. It is definitely a balancing act that will always bring up the question of narcissism simply because of the sheer responsibility and power of this role.
On the other side of the fulcrum... there would always be a temptation to see smaller failures as a sign to what the bigger picture will be. Out of fear that they do not see the "real" Truth I can see a Sage wanting to "do no harm" and thus shrug their Sage like big picture responsibilities back onto everyone else and not even try. So hermitude related to the distortion of self.
So the problem is a Sage can be narcissistic because they feel too important, or because they feel they're not important enough. I think if you add narcissism to any of the other archetypes that they might believe themselves to be a "sage" in an effort to battle some power struggle or control issue with themselves, and that would lead to all manner of fallacies. I do think the romantic narrative becoming the center of a person's emotional, spiritual, intellectual and physical Truth is one of the most detrimental and socially accepted vices of today's age. It's incredibly destructive.
Sagacity and Hermitude
I see what you're saying about the balance between self and other. I thought the point about a Sage, instead of seeing the boxes as limiting, trying to use the power of them was...well, very sagely :-)
I guess my overall point may relate to what you said that it is "a balancing act that will always bring up the question of narcissism simply because of the sheer responsibility and power of this role." I see that it is a role of great power and responsibility, but is it bringing up narcissism because we're thinking of it as power and responsibility falling on one person? (Like Spiderman) So that we either think--oh yeah...she's the sage; she's got all the answers...whew...let's turn everything over to her. Or, hey, I'm the sage, make me benevolent dictator and everything will be fine. (Maybe this is the same thing you were saying? self/other?) And I'm thinking, ideally it's more like a lot of people on a path (aspiring)--and one says...hey, I think I may have something figured out about this whole box thing. And another person says, you know the ground over here's a bit smoother. And in that way they're all combining to have great power and great responsbility toward each other--but it doesn't all fall on one person.
And the combo of the types + narcissism--you're saying that a person could use the "do the right thing" part of the sage in a kind of artificial way--maybe looking for a code of conduct. Actually, I think that describes very accurately what most Western hero myths are (I'm thinking of stories of knights, cowboys, detectives---that there's an individual code the person is following which is in contrast to the society around them and/or to a battle with inner demons).
I do think that's how it gets incorporated a lot and how in our culture we mistake the sage archetype. I'm just thinking how many stories in popular culture have the idea of the "Chosen One" (The Matrix, Buffy, Lost). And one thing that happened in Buffy was always this tension between the hierarchy of "watchers" who trained the Chosen one to be that lone hero vs. the way she was most successful (within a larger community--the Scooby Gang), and the show ended with overturning that whole idea of their being one Chosen hero (maybe that's kind of where my idea of the Sage as being more a community effort is coming from).
I guess the way I think of the sage most often represented in pop culture--the lone guy on the mountaintop who is sought after for answers--that seems to me to be a misreading through the lens of "The Master"--or at least doesn't acknowledge the shifting between master-apprentice but rigidifies it.
Sage and Master
The balance between self and other is a recognition that the Sage does not bear the sole responsibility or power of the knowledge they possess. The bigger picture is made up of many of which the Sage is only one.
I think it's true that the Master archetype is often confused with the Sage. Their roles are similar, however the Master role does define a hierarchy which leaves the Master in control. In my interpretation of these archetypes I can see the Sage feeling compelled to act - maybe even to take the role of Master, but with full knowledge that any hierarchies are temporary to a common purpose. Once the purpose is fulfilled, there is no need to hold onto power for power's sake. The Sage might take on the role of a Master in the short term, but the Sage will jump into whatever box is necessary, including those lower down in the hierarchy.
I think this Master archetype recurs in pop culture because we are generally a culture that seeks to control as a response to the fears that we feel. Anything seen through fear is a false lens to an altruist like the Sage because the Sage's goal is always truth. The Sage does not take the Master role to control or take power, but to teach. The truth is that when this is done, the Sage moves on. The truth is that whether the Apprentice believes it or not - they have the ability to not only be the Master, but to be the Sage as well. Those whose intent is to remain underneath the rank of the Sage are not concerned with the truth, but only with the shifting of blame in order that they not be held responsible. People isolate themselves because they feel like they can't do the things they aspire to and so they falsely isolate the Sage.
Sage & Master
That's an interesting description of the relationship and connected to what you said about the Sage's use of boxes or categories. Because in many ways it looks there as if, when the Sage takes on the role of Master--is there actually any difference between the two? You said that the Master role defines a hierarchy which leaves the Master in control. But wouldn't that be a distortion or perhaps it's an over dominance of the archetype in someone's life? Because ideally its only a temporary position, as is the Apprentice's--the Apprentice having the ability to not only be the Master but the Sage.
The Sage jumping into whatever box is necessary--so maybe a way of thinking of the Sage is as someone who moves in and out of the other archetypes without letting one dominate? So the Sage could be Master, Apprentice, Friend, Hero...etc. Are there any of the Archetypes that the Sage could not occupy?
Balance between self and other--and going back to the opening description--the Sage always acting on behalf of the health of the system--and finally your last point that the Sage being falsely isolated (as people falsely isolate themselves) because they fear they can't do the things they aspire to. All of those lead me back to my initial question which is--is hermitage a natural and necessary part of the Sage's journey that s/he is drawn to? Or is it instead a result of particular cultural influences like the fears that make people afraid to recognize the power of the Sage within themselves and thus to falsely isolate the other who is a Sage?
Re: Sage & Master
Ah, yes you're right. I'm sorry I'm jumping around so much. The "goal of control" aspect of the Master would be a distortion or likely potential downfall of that archetype and is not central to the definition. The hierarchy part I think still functionally stands as that could be used for either good or ill. That's an important distinction to make, thank you.
Well, I think fundamentally there is a difference between the Master and when the Sage takes on the Master's role, but perhaps not a discernable difference to anyone other than the Sage.
The ideal is what is different.
A Sage's identity revolves around "the right thing".
A Master's identity revolves around her-or-his expertise.
These definitions allow the Sage to be a Master "of doing the right thing" and still remain within the definition of "Sage".
A Master's identity is self centered by definition. This definition allows for both the possibility that the Master is teaching about "the right thing" and that the teacher is possibly teaching about something counter to that. So there is not "reciprocity of definition" there. The goal of the teaching has to be weighed against right and wrong in order to determine the sagacity of the teaching.
Outside of knowing the goal of the Master, all an observer has to go on is that something is being taught to them.
The Sage can occupy any of the archetypes because since the Sage is never fundamentally defined by the roles utilized for the purpose of "the right thing". Which archetype they appear to be is often defined by the person analyzing the Sage based on the observer's own (possibly limited) understanding.
I think that hermitude is listed to point out the most likely struggle of the Sage, given the huge nature of their task. It's not only culture, but themselves they contend with. The temptation is always going to be to doubt or give up on the ideal as unattainable for whatever reason.
Re: Sage & Master
Oh, no problem--I think I was confused. I think I tend to conflate hierarchy and control, but you're right they're different, and especially if the hierarchy is temporary.
The ideal being different--that clarified the difference. In a way that really defines the difference between a good and a bad teacher to me. Bad teaching is about the subject matter (which is the teacher's expertise), and good teaching is about how to learn the subject matter (which is about how to acquire the teacher's expertise). And I'd say the current education system because of it's emphasis on measureable assessments tends to support the former.
That's interesting that the Sage can occupy any of the archetypes as some of them don't seem to easily adapt to doing the right thing. Ah, but if I understand what you're saying the archetype might be more something they're placed in that isn't quite accurate (based on limited understanding).
I see what you're saying about the temptation to give up on the ideal and that makes sense.
Being Drawn to Hermitage
Hermits ;-)
"You know it takes me 2 hours every morning to get out onto the moors, collect my berries, chastise myself, and 2 hours back in the evening. Still there's one thing about being a hermit...at least you meet people."
Or there's Herman's
Nooo! Don't Be A Hermit!
Drawn to hermitage? Ugh! How lonely... Why do you think this is? Are they too hard on themselves? What are they avoiding? OR should I say, Who? Do you think people that aspire to become Sages are perfectionists? I know that's a lot of questions, but I'm patient...just so long as you answer all of them. 
You are one that aspires to be a sage, right? Well, I hope you don't let Hermitage draw you in! You've got to fight it! Fight it, I say, fight it to the death!!
...so I'm passionate....what can I say? 
hermitage
combos of archetypes
I'm not sure about the answer to your question, jaz. Perhaps that's a question the GC can indulge. But if I had to guess, generally, ones combo of archetypes probably play on each other. Like falling into the category of one archetype might conspire with others and naturally supplement another, etc. And it also might include how you see yourself and how others' see you.
I think I see what you're saying though. I'd think that everyone has one or two dominant archetypes that defines ones lifestyle. Perhaps one of the best ways to reflect these archetypes is by story-telling. Using your own imagination in creating characters based on the archetypes that you are.
Re: combos
You are a myth
I found this site... thought it was pretty insightful.
B.G. Storm, baby!
Blue Galactic Storm
| Color is your source of power | Tone is your function or creative contribution | Tribe is your powerful archetypal essence |
| Blue/West Transform their worlds, one person at a time or groups. Move the world and stir things up. Transformation, intuition, energy, vision, magic, healing | Galactic Model Harmonize Integrity A model for others, & hold high ideals. Honesty is essential and integrity is a given. You are very thorough, and a quick expert. | Storm Catalyze, Energy, Self-generation A calm exterior hides the ever-working mind. Keeper of multifaceted perspectives, you are a teacher, transformer, and clarifier. Share your confidence with us |
Oh... that's right
It's not really fair to keep calling you Peach. "PG, sounds like Peachy". You are BG, sounds like "beachy".
Hm.
Beachy –adjective
| covered with pebbles or sand. |
Sunny days, sweeping the clouds away
Anyway, I know you worry about me out here. You know, it's very...sunny. Thus, my hat. 
But I like the beach. Who wouldn't want to spend the day with sand fleas?
*sigh*
When you get me some peanut butter I will vacate this sandy shore of depression and move to the caves. Deal?
My Mayan Signature - WOOT!
LOL ... I like what that site calls me anyway.
White Galactic Wizard
| Color is your source of power | Tone is your function or creative contribution | Tribe is your powerful archetypal essence |
| White/North Purifiers, shine light into darkness, the light of truth. Will assist in the calibration of others, and grounding. Truth, clarity, unification, timelessness, order, spirit | Galactic Model Harmonize Integrity A model for others, & hold high ideals. Honesty is essential and integrity is a given. You are very thorough, and a quick expert. | Wizard Timelessness, Enchantment, Receptivity Being receptive to the enchanting magic of the timeless now, enables you to be receptive to the magic of the future |
Mayan signature.
White Spectral World-Bridger |
| Color is your source of power | Tone is your function or creative contribution | Tribe is your powerful archetypal essence |
| White/North Purifiers, shine light into darkness, the light of truth. Will assist in the calibration of others, and grounding. Truth, clarity, unification, timelessness, order, spirit | Spectral Release Dissolve Liberation The art of letting go & being present. Have your own strategies & methods, will not be told how to do it, gets others to think outside themselves. | Death Equalize, Opportunity, Death Tranquility and confidence through spiritual strength. Adept at applying multidimensional solutions. Transmutation of paradigms, community oriented. |
Mayan Signature
Oh cool, DL, didn't realize until you posted that you could get your own. I like mine too.
Red Electric Serpent
| Color is your source of power | Tone is your function or creative contribution | Tribe is your powerful archetypal essence |
| Red/East Often spark new ideas, communities, and are flashy. Instigators and facilitators. Deft at sharp wit and sarcasm. Initiation, beginnings, passion, flow, exploration, evolution | Electric Bond Activate Service Sees connections and possibility where many don't. You are the activator. Electrics are often of service to others, valued and make contribution. | Serpent Survive, Instinct, Life-Force Passionate, resourceful, and headstrong, seeker of justice, and correct authority. Hidden sensualities, revealed through connections of earthly and divine. |
Mayan meaning
Heh, yeah, I don't know what these mean, lol.
DL and I have the same "color" though. I shall take that as a flattering sincerity.
Better than a fool!
Heh... hmm...
*uses brain power*
I think I'm invoked to be a sage... and I aspire to... but I suck at both.
Is there an archetype for that? 
No you don't!
You most certainly do NOT suck at both! I've read a lot of your posts and you are a wise young lady. Often times very insightful and almost always very witty! You're an awesome Sage Katrina.... or atleast an aspiring Sage....
Re: No you don't!
I'll have to ditto what jaz and BG said.
*sniff*
Ok, where do I send the Hallmark cards? Seriously, you guys are too sweet.
And you know... under the circumstances, I'd think all of us have sage-like characteristics. Or... under the circumstances, referring to below, a fool AND sage characteristics.
Going out on a limb
Heh... well thanks, that's so sweet BG.... however, I don't exactly have experience "in the bones" per se.
"The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense, not between right and wrong." Perhaps why one becomes "hermitite".... (I am so patenting that word if I just made it up like I think I did ) ....society is all about right/wrong.
Branching off... through synchronicity, one is able to put a question to the I Ching book and get sagely advice on important questions in one's life. So I wonder if the I-Ching itself is considered a Sage/Oracle/Shaman archetype? And in asking that, is the Sage and the Oracle one in the same? Both are seemingly ageless archetypes, both acts and speaks truthfully without any regard to conform to the "values" established by mainstream society. Or is this when "families of archetypes" come into play?
going out on a limb
. I think that's a very excellent idea about where the desire to cut oneself off from society comes from. And I love that quotation--personally I find myself constantly between those two (sense and nonsense) and often liking nonsense somewhat more. I think maybe we need a "fool" archetype--cause I'm not sure "idiot" quite describes that polarity. Or maybe "fool" is just a variation of "sage" as that quotation suggests.Re: going out on a limb
Actually I picked the term "Idiot" precisely because I didn't want it confused with the "fool" concept. I tend to the think the "fool" as you're referring to it, jaz, is, in fact, a variation of the "sage".
Re: going out on a limb
The "fool" as a variation of a "sage"... yeah, I think I see that. In a way that the fool makes light of a stressful situation by way of humor perhaps... thus transforming a negative situation into something different? Compared to the personality of a sage, characteristically able to calm a stressed situation.
Hm, though... I think "fool" is a harsh variation of a sage.
fools
fools
Ah... yeah, I guess I was looking at the "fool" in a more general sense. In that way it seems as though the sage and the fool are all but the opposite of each other. (lacking judgement or common sense) I guess that's where "idiot" comes in. But I see what you're saying, jaz. I think it applies by means of sarcasm or irony--terms in which have ambigious meanings.
To add on to to the fool-trickster. Someone whom uses their own wits and cleverness to get themselves out of a compromising situation.
And jazfool, you're aspiring quite well.
I'm often drawn...
back to rethinking this :-)
And I realize why. The hermitage part has never made a lot of sense to me. Why would the same archetype which is "One with the Universe" also be drawn to withdrawing from everything? So I think I have some ideas, and possibly a way of thinking about how our culture might distort the Sage idea which would support the fact that Sages are drawn to hermitage. But in my concept--this is a cultural distortion of the archetype rather than an inherent part of it.
Where I started thinking about this most recently was in associating the "Sage" not with a particular person but with human beings generally and thinking that actually "Sage" probably describes for me the natural and healthy state of all human beings--or at least the arc they would be on under ideal circumstances. That's my interpretation of it as a transcendent archetype. And as such Sages don't exist alone--people are sages together--sagacity is a relationship among many rather than a state of being for one person. Hermitage is the withdrawal from human society--so they seem paired as opposites, but why would aspiring to be a sage lead one to be drawn to its exact opposite? I was thinking that generally our society has many influences toward isolation, toward extreme individualism, toward narcissism. So I was thinking that it's those cultural forces that might be responsible for the Hermit. But actually going back to look at the pairings, I realize that it's those forces which might be taking a lot of the talents of the Sage and tending to make Rogues instead (I didn't realize until I went back that the Rogue is paired with the Sage--there is no "Hermit" archetype).
But now I think I have a different answer--I think the sage is an inherent human trait, but our desire for it is getting placed into narratives which reinforce extreme individuality rather than community (heh, I suddenly realize that part of my rethink about this is coming out of rereading my old "Lost" theories, lol,--"live together, die alone). I think in particular the Heroic-narrative, possibly also the Master/Apprentice, and the Lover. That is we look for a Sage in an individual, rather than think of sagacity as something we are all working toward together. And that individual is supposed to rescue everyone, or is supposed to be the Master (Parent) but other people give over responsibility and don't want to grow-up, or the way in which one finds their meaning and connection is by being a romantic focus for someone else. The first one especially--the Heroic--is going to lead toward hermitage. One person can't be the Sage and in trying to rescue others will continue to be thrown back on their sense of isolation rather than connection. The other two at least have relationship in them. But in the Master/Apprentice--again our culture tends toward either positions of absolute authority which allows no growth, and abrogation of responsibility (same difference really). And in the romance narrative in our culture there's this immense burden in people supposedly being each other's soul mates. Here's a description of that from an article I just read in which single women were asked to describe what that meant to them: "That one person person who understands you emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, and physically"--well when the burden of that comes crashing down people are going to withdraw into isolation. And in fact something else I read in the paper today says that a great majority of young people today are suffering from mental illnesses (primarily depression) and the usual catalyst is the break up of a romantic relationship.