Initial observations from "Because You Left" and "The Lie"
I'm inclined to believe the following things:
Season 5 will continue Sun's progression into raw evil. As the show has progressed she has gone from oppressed wife to manipulative hussie to corporate power-hungry-bitch to now vengeful widow. I expect her to individually betray (exact her revenge upon?) all of the Oceanic 6, Ben, and Widmore before her story is done.
Ms. Hawking is most likely Dan's mom, and Dr. Pierre Chang (Wickman/Candle/Halliwax) is probably Miles's father. Miles ability to hear the dead could in fact be his ability to hear different points on the timelines - which could easily explain the whispers.
The Island seems to be moving in a mathematically predictable fashion as evidenced by Ms. Hawking's computer screen - probably in a way related to the Valenzetti Equation, if not explicitly by the formula.
The lawyers sent to Kate's house were undoubtedly sent by Widmore because Sun told him the truth about Aaron. This implies that Widmore either wants or needs Aaron in his power play for the Island.
Hurley's telling his mom about the lie will have further complications - she isn't going to keep that to herself, probably telling her husband - who probably is willing to sell information or access to Widmore.
I think it's important that Aaron tells Kate he wants to go home just after Hurley and Sayid leave the gas station - is this a sign that he wants to go back to the Island?
During the recap episode, one of the producers said that Sun believes that Jin is dead - could this be a sign that he survived the freighter explosion? If so, it wouldn't be the first time he was on a boat that blew up and he washed up on shore.
Once I can download and re-watch the episodes I'll bring more to this conversation, but until then... Thoughts?
My brain is fried!!
When Desmond wakes up in 2007 (three years after being rescued by Penny) he suddenly seemed to have a memory he didn't have before. It happened when Dan got him to open the door to the hatch and told him to look up his mother in 1996. Maybe I'm misinterpreting this event but it sure seemed to imply to me that Dan had altered the past and we were seeing the impact it would have in the future. But if the past can't be changed..... and why did it take more than 3 years Desmond to have the memory? Why that moment? Why didn't he already remember that when Penny rescued him?
I don't know if it was a coincidence or not but when Locke and Boone found Yemi's plane Locke suddenly lost the use of his legs. In this episode he gets shot in the leg at that same location when he tries to climb to the plane. Is there some sort of echo taking place? He wasn't supposed to reach the plane and his old injury pops up to stop him? It's probably nothing but I did find it interesting!
Richard tells Locke that Locke is traveling through time but Richard isn't. He gives him a compass to give to him the next time they meet. One of the objects that Richard showed a young Locke when he went back in time to test him was a compass. So we know that Richard can travel in time but he wasn't effected by the time warp that is sending the rest of the island occupants back and forth like a Timex ping pong ball. Why? And how is it that Richard knew what was happening to Locke from a conversation he had with him in the future, and yet Desmond seems to only recall bits and pieces of information during the time changes.
I don't trust Sun at all. She set up Kate to believe she was at fault for Jin's death and then ended it with a very cold "I don't blame you" that made my skin crawl. She's going to betray her at some point. I do think that Ben is the one responsible for the lawyers telling Kate that they needed a blood test. If they really had a court order with them they would have had a sheriff with them to inforce it. They wouldn't leave and come back with the police thereby giving Kate time to run. That whole thing was intended to set her back on her tried and true habit of running when trouble shows up. Ben needs her to want to leave the life she's made. That was the perfect way to do it.
When Faraday was working on the Dharma station he looked exactly like he does on the present day island. When Desmond went to see him at Oxford he looked very different (as did Desmond). Is this a sign that Dan is traveling alone as well as with the group? He seemed to want to be there and seemed known there - but something was off about it. I'll have to think on this one a bit more.
And finally (hey stop cheering!!!) We've seen people get nose bleeds from time traveling without a constant. George Minkowski got one after several days of time traveling and he said his friend Brandon had died (presumably from a brain aneurysm). ne never said how long it took before Brandon died but he did say he was highly affected by the island and that forced them to turn around. Charlotte got a nose bleed fairly quickly compared to every one else. Could it mean that she has experienced time travel prior to this?
OK one last, one last thing! I promise this will be the last! I've been wondering over the last few months what events could have caused Whidmore to leave the island. It's very possible that he wanted to go home much like Jack, but I think it's far more likely that he was the last person to turn the donkey wheel before Ben. This is pure speculation but I'm betting that he was under siege from outside forces (Dharma?) and turned the wheel moving the island, which forced him off the island. His actions ended up ailing to protect the island and eventually letting Ben take control of it.
We now return you to your regular thread already in progress......
Desmond's memory
You're right Stip
It was a reference to when they get off the island and not 1996. I'm not sure where you got 2007 from though other than the fact that Desmond gets the memory in 2007. According to the Lostpedia time line, they were rescued by Penny on Dec. 31, 2004.
Here's the conversation between Des and Penny regarding the time frame when he has the memory.
PENNY: Are you all right?
DESMOND: (Softly) I was on the Island.
(Desmond continues panting.)
DESMOND: I was on the Island.
PENNY: You've been off the Island for three years now.
(She kisses him on the shoulder.)
PENNY: You're safe now. It was just a dream.
DESMOND: It wasn't a dream, Pen.
(Desmond looks at her solemnly, then whispers:)
DESMOND: It was a memory.
I don't understand why this should be. From Desmond's perspective Dan told him to look up his Mother prior to 815 crashing (and then vanished into thin air right before his eyes -- which is something that should have freaked him out and I'd love to see his reaction to Dan vaporizing but I digress).
Anyway why wouldn't Desmond remember this when he's rescued? And having seen Dan and heard his message telling him about the helicopter and him getting home...
(FARADAY: Okay, listen to me. Listen! If the helicopter somehow made it off the Island, if you got home--
DESMOND: What helicopter? What are you talking about?!
...knowing that there will be a helicopter and a chance that he got home, how does this change Desmond and everything he believes? I mean if it was me and someone came to me and knew my name, said something like this and then vanished into thin air right before my eyes, I think I'd remember that and put some serious thought into what they told me! Man there are so many questions about this encounter and it's implications. I really hope they explore and explain some of this. But most I want to know why it took three years for the memory to come out in Desmond's mind.
Remembering
People aren't allowed to remember such things because to do so would cause a paradox, which, according to Dan, the cosmos forbids. This is why even Dan forgets things... like he forgot about the first time he met Desmond back in Oxford (Desmond tells him this and Dan doubts that he'd forget).
Dan mentions only Desmond as an exception to these rules.
Excepting the rules
It seems to me...
... that the memory kicked in precisely when it needed to. It would have been pointless for it to kick in any other time.
So the real question is... why shouldn't it have kicked in right then? 
Memory/Dream
Hello. Hope you all are well.
Desmond claims memory. Penelope suggests dream. What is the distinction?
A memory is experience plus revivification (humean re distinction between experience and ideas, I guess leading to his prognostication of Charlie's death being based on prior experience; and I dont think this possibility is out of the question if Desmond can truly move back and forward on a string).
As to the question of why remember now, echoing Ozone's comment above, and Charlie Parker, now's the time.
However, Im not so sure that it is pure memory.
Dreams suggest the language of the symbolic through the voice of desire. Someting about this recapitulation sure smells like a dream, upon waking. Maybe Desmond's true 'desire' is separate from happiness from Penelope?
Im skeptical of Desmond's memory. I have a feeling his backstory will turn to be broader than we know .
RE: Memory/Dream
I think you're right, retro...
And welcome back... good to see you.
Is the time now?
OK between the huge break, a lack of sleep from recently being sick and the fact that I'm still groggy because I haven't had my coffee yet, I'm missing the reason why 2007 is the right time for the memory to kick in. From Dan and Charlotte's perspective the freighter blew up a few minutes ago or maybe a day or two earlier at most. They've bounced around a little but it doesn't seem that very much time has passed since the explosion. The O6 were picked up by Penny on 12/31/04. Desmond wakes from his dream/memory in 2007... sorry but I'm missing the connection between the two time periods.
Presumably Charlotte would be dead by 2007 right? If I understand the whole "constant" idea, it's to allow the time traveler to have the same anchor in each time period they travel too in order to allow their mind to understand the differences. Desmond would need to have found Dan's mom fairly soon after leaving the island since Charlotte is already showing signs of the aneurysm. And with the time variation on the island (assuming it's still a constant variation from the rest of the world after Ben moved the island) it would seem that it's even more important that he act quickly. Several days passed on the island while the helicopter flew to the freighter. Minutes off the island felt like days on the island. If this is still holding true Charlotte's in big trouble! So what am I missing? What's the connection with 2007 (other than the fact that it took the O6 that long to realize their mistake?)
Does it help to think of it like a portal?
I think I get what you're asking Jukin--why does the memory show up in 2007 and not at some earlier period of time? Why doesn't it show up soon after the 6, Des and Penny have left the island?
Could it work something like this--the island is a portal or communication device to other times. When the wheel turns--that communication device is carried into 2007. During the period immediately after it disappears to the time when it shows up in 2007--it has no capability to communicate or act as a portal. In fact maybe it doesn't even exist. It's only when it pops back in in 2007 that the message from Dan to Des (even though this message temporally took place--when? 2001? around the time of the crash?) can be relayed to Des.
Just a hop, skip and a... skip and a.... skip....
Jaz I like this idea a lot even though it is the exact opposite idea of a theory I'm working on now! I like the idea of the island not existing for several years at a time. Now the question is why would it return in 2008? What event happened to allow it to reappear? Is that just when the random date occurred or was there an event that brought it to that specific time period? The laws of probability would make it moving ahead just three years very unlikely. It just happened to move to a time that was both convenient and appropriate for the O6 to go back? Probably not - coincidence and this show don't often travel together! I think it was more likely that an event linked it to that time period. Something like Locke's death maybe? He was alive at some point in 2008 since he visited each of the O6. Then soon after his death (likely only days since his body hasn't even been buried) the island reappears allowing Desmond to have the memory of Dan. Based on this I think his death and the islands reappearance probably aren't coincidence .
By the way, since the Lostpedia time line shows Penny rescuing Desmond and the O6 on Dec. 31, 2004 and Penny tells Desmond he's been off the island for three years, I'm going to set the reference date for the O6 as 2008 in all of my posts.
Anyway Jaz, I like your idea a lot. Good job -- as always!
Lost is a lot like MYST
I like Jaz's idea of a portal to "other times." Lost is a lot like the early 90's PC game MYST in that way. The island is like the linking books taking inhabitants to different points in time. This explains how the BlackRock came to the island. The island resurfaced directly underneath it explaining how it was beached so far inland. Probably explains the ancient civilization and their 4-toed statue. But I digress.
If time is a string, the island skipping allowed Dan to add onto or better said - insert to - Desmond's "pre crash of 815" memory. When that event (Dan's plea to visit his mother) takes place, its 2007 for off the island Des as confirmed by Penny's statement "you've been off the island for 3 yrs."
It suggests the memory wasn't available (activated?) in Des until 2007 because the island is skipping through time but people off the island are not. This to me also explains Mittelos=Losttime and why Richard can show Juliet an Xray of a woman who looks in her 70's, but is really only 26. Dan's payload experiment and the slain freighter doctor confirms that there is a time discrepancy between life on the island and life off it. It also explains how Locke can tell Richard he will be shot. Its a selective insertion of memory clips to manipulate people to the desired course of action - otherwise a paradox occurs.
This rant sound like a theory unto itself.
I think...
... you've got the right idea here, jaz.
For one reason or another, Desmond couldn't do anything about the "memory" until the moment he had it. And until he could do something about it, there was no point having it.
WHY he could do nothing about it until then... the show has yet to reveal, but I think it's something like what you're saying, jaz.
I guess...
the connection between the 'two' time periods would be desmond.
Perhaps his dream/memory is being mediated by desire.
It didn't cross my mind that Faraday was asking Desmond to find Faraday's mother in order to save Charlotte.
Desmond's memory and other things
Hey I like that idea of adding on to the string! Dan I think started to explain what was happening using string theory. I think what happened with Dan and Des is very similar to the maze experiment with Eloise except that it's temporally reversed--Dan gave Eloise a memory from the future, and I think he creates a memory for Des that wasn't there before. And that does mean that the past was changed--maybe on the Des gets out of temporal paradox free card.
I think Agent was suggesting that time on island and off were not in sync and that's why Dan telling Des to go to Oxford and Des's Dream are concurrent (somehow reminding me of the Aspect experiment).
Jukin--good call on Locke getting shot as an echo. Question about the compass--when Richard tells Locke to give it to him so that Richard will recognize him--is he actually telling Locke to remember differently next time in the scene in which Richard visits the young Locke? As in--give me the compass so I'll recognize you--don't pick the knife...an attempt to shift the timeline to what it was supposed to be? Again, following up a suggestion Agent made--maybe Locke was supposed to be the epicenter of powah--but he messed up by picking the wrong object. And then maybe Des was never meant to be there at all (Prof's Des killed Charlie idea)--but is there and is a wild card set in motion (oooo mixed metaphor--I think I've become unstuck) by Locke's error.
Sun--"I don't blame you"--I think the person Sun is after is Jack (as the other person responsible for Jin's death)--as in he should never have called that frakkin boat Jack. She may be playing Widmore in an attempt to get Jack--in other words I don't think she's on either side of the Widmore/Ben divide but has her own agenda. I do think she was manipulating Widmore earlier.
Dan at the Dharma iniative--did seem different to me--not like the random time jumpiness. Dan didn't look like he expected to be whisked away momentarily to some other time.
See here for a Charlotte discussion :-)
Good call
Thanks :-)
Locke
Re: Locke
That is interesting to see that looking through a religious lens since Locke is generally a character generally tied to the concept of faith on the island. It fits to see him as a sacrifice and then for the story to follow onto the ressurection thread. All caused by the ultimate force of "the island" which Locke worships. Will Claire be seen as a prophet? I guess it depends whose "side" she's on. Whose side is Des on? If Des is the only one that can alter the timeline what would that make him in this story?
It'll be interesting to see how this crosses over into other overlapping points of view in the show. For instance switch the looking glass to view this scientifically -
Why does Locke have to die in order to get everyone back to the island?
Does it relate to Non-Linear time and the converging of 2 alternate realities ?
If you look at it thinking paranormally will Locke become a ghost like Jacob and Christian? Will his knowledge of the future look to everyone else like he has a supernatural power?
On a side note I find it interesting that the skiff was a "Zodiac"... I hope that's a little forshadowing there. I do think there's a bit more to come since Kate looks like she could be convinced to flee to the island given the turn of events, but she's been instructed by Claire (vision/ghost?) not to.
Why doesn't Claire want Aaron to come back to the island?
WOOT! Lost is BACK! Hooray! What an awesome show.
16 Men on a Dead Man's Chest...
I was speculating this somewhere else--but thinking again about why Locke has to die--is it that for a group of people to gain entry to the island they need to have one or more dead bodies (and do they have to be the bodies of particular people)? Christian's body would be what made it possible for the Losties to land. Single people have gained entry to the island without a dead body--Des, Henry Gale. I think in those cases if I generalize from Des and Juliet--the person has to be unconscious. And in 1954 it seems like the army gained entry without any problem and so did Dharma. So I'm thinking this is a post-incident necessity. Other people were also accompanying Juliet--but I think the others undergo some process which connects them to time differently--this is why the others are not leaping with the Losties (with the exception of the marked Juliet).
So why would a dead body be necessary? The person is no longer moving in time--so does that give the others an anchor or constant necessary to move through from the mainland to the island? From one kind of time to another? Does this help overcome paradox in a way that would be similar for a single person entering unconscious? And does it have be someone who has been on the island before? And that would mean that Christian had been (I'm kinda thinking he'll have been there along with Widmore and Ms. H.).
Bring out yer dead.....
Interesting idea Jaz! I'm not sure how Naomi, Daniel and the rest of the freighter folks fit into this. We saw Frank travel back and forth a couple of times and being a professional pilot he never lost consciousness (then again he was never drunk so forget what I said about him being a professional pilot!)
Frank actually took a dead body (Naomi) OFF of the island instead of bringing one to the island. Any way how do they fit in with this idea?
Bring out yer dead...
Ah yeah... fergot them...
Well the freighter folks (as apart from the helicopter folks) they were affected by whatever the "virus" is--as were the people on Danielle's ship (ok there's another exception). So there maybe it's not that you can't get onto the island without a dead body (or being unconscious), but you can't get on and remain sane.
But then I got nothing on the helicopter folks...unless it's that Frank should have been dead in the other timeline. I dunno it begins to be too messy...
There's something going on there though with the parallel of Locke and Christian, and then Des (and Jack) coming onto the island unconsious...
Why does Locke have to die?
With regard to the idea of competing realities, I would guess that he has to die because by leaving the island the 6 have created an alternative time line in which Locke doesn't exist? Or something like that. If it's Jack's phone call that 'caused this difference than would that suggest that he's like Des? Or is Des the only change agent?
Kat suggested that Locke has to die in order to become Jacob--and I think that's right, but I'm not sure why he has to become Jacob.
Maybe the Island needs a human consciousness to stabilize it? To become one with it, in order to stop all the time wonkiness? That would be interesting because Locke's main relationship has always been with the island, and if this is what happens he would in a way be marrying the island--becoming it's human embodiment. That again would be very like Jesus's role.
Die, Locke, Die
LOL
Well I was talking about that the other day, actually.
If Des is the only person circumstantially that can change the present day time line. Let's assume he got those abilities at ground zero of the Swan incident...
He's the guy standing outside the vending machine in non-linear time. Ben, and any other manipulator on the island (including Locke) can only try to send messages to influence Des's choice. But Des has got the powah of present. Somehow his anchor to this timeline puts him at the epicenter. What is happening when Des changes events? I suggest that he is merging alternate realities with the choices that he makes. Charlie was "supposed to die" every time Des forsaw it. He changed the path of the present timeline each time he saved Charlie.
Now because everyone's choices affect the unknown future even Ben with the knowledge he has can manage to manipulate a great deal, but he's still not able to get whatever that one thing that evades him (and apparently Mrs. Hawking - she's kind of sexy for a white haired lady, don't you think?). Once a future event has been seen by somebody, it cannot be changed.... but the unwitnessed things between can, to an extent - as long as it doesn't create a time paradox in the physical, present-day world. We have a rift between the present as it has been established - (and the witnessed future) and what Ben wants.
I think Alpert and the island people have been searching for the agent of change. They chose Ben because of the strong influence he appeared to have, but found he fell short and had to keep searching for the other one. Maybe Jacob was their first try?
Perhaps it's suggested that because Locke is special, in an alternate reality Locke is the one at the epicenter and has "the powah". Locke's choices in that reality are close enough that it would not create a paradox in our current timeline by "switching them over" or collapsing them, so to speak. But how?
So what happens when a person dies? We've seen they exist somewhere - possibly in parallel realities. When someone dies in this timeline - like Christian, Charlie or Anna Lucia they can only appear as a ghost in our present time reality. Some ghosts can be seen, suggesting the alternate reality is similar and less paradoxical than invisible ghosts like Miles encountered in the bedroom or the ones that pop in and out of existence (if those are ghosts at all). This also might relate to what a "ghost" remembers about the island.
Somehow Locke dying will precipiate changes in the present day timeline reality that collapse these 2 compatible realities. (Makes me wonder if Des died in the Swan explosion, actually....) If Locke is the true agent of change, I believe this would allow him to "ressurect" physically and not just as a ghost like Jacob, Christian and the others... and perhaps bring other "compatible ghosts" back.
Bring back the dead...
Yeah I like those ideas, especially the last point--continuing in Jesus' role in a different way.
You think maybe Locke was originally supposed to have been at the epicenter and maybe Des wasn't meant to be there at all? I'm just remembering back to Prof's "Des killed Charlie" post--Des messed up what was supposed to happen with Locke. Maybe he should never have been there--and that is how Widmore broke the rules.
I agree about Ms. Hawking (or maybe she's actually Dr. Hawking? or Dr. Faraday?)--in fact so far she's actually the sexiest woman on the show! I like the fact that she seems in charge of Ben, LOL. And of course there's nothing quite like a woman with a piece of chalk in her hand I always say (hee).
Hmmm...
But if Widmore "broke the rules", that would mean that Ms. Hawking was in with Widmore on the plan somehow, since she encouraged Des to "fufill his destiny". Or that Ben and Hawking knew about Widmore's plan and have their own to offset it. Which might mean that Ben will get his vengeance and Penny will die afterall.
It's always seemed weird to me that that Ben doesn't seem that interested in Des. Ben's either clueless, or Des has simply fufilled his purpose. Maybe Widmore was clueless about what Des's role/purpose is.
These show writers are very clevah. This could go any which way.
Yeah... aren't smart women sexy?!
Any which way...
I think Des is probably being used by both sides. Either that or even though Ms. Hawking and Ben are on the same side, she's not revealing everything to him 'cause she doesn't trust him completely--has her own ideas about Des...
And smart women sure is! That's one reason this site sizzles :-)
The GC is a woman!?!
Bow chicka WOW WOW!
Re: The GC is a woman!?!
I believes this to be a winning strategy for Campaign 2009...
(another sign of the major brain power operating here...none of those other "People" magazine types will have thought of it!...Hah! "People" indeed. I believe the name "Jack-Man" is a dead give-away.)
Des
Back to school...
Heh, you know it's beginning to make sense to me that Agent's theory would be about the converging of alternative realities--cause she's able to juggle all these different theories and find their convergence in her beautiful big blue up-do! :-)
I feel like I need a crash course (so to speak) in Lost at the moment. I need to go back and reread and remind myself what's going on.
And of course, I would be back to real school at the moment, drat it! Maybe the first paper in the Rhetoric course is going to have to be changed to some kind of Lost related theme....hmmmm.....
Anyway just getting in here momentarily to admire the cross-roads that is Marge's hair (a hot cross-roads bun?) and to join in the WOOT! ...
Beginning to make sense...
LOL - I was quite impressed myself...
There can only be one explanation... she figured out a way to travel back and forth through time. Check your nose, Agent... time traveling has serious side effects!
The lawyers
Interesting thoughts. Though I'm not convinced yet that the lawyers were sent by Widmore.
I think it could be a set up. Knowing that Kate wouldn't be easily convinced to return to the island, Ben could have sent the lawyers to scare her, giving her a legitimate reason to go back to the island. A clue to this would be that Kate almost calls Jack - which Ben might have anticipated.
Good call
on the lawyers, Kat.
Now, the hired thugs with tranquilizers? I'm actually thinking also from Ben.
The package and the gun to Sun--now that would be very cool if that were also Ben--manipulating Sun into place to return to the island by the lure of killing him. Just in terms of elegance I like that more than it being Widmore.
Ben's guys
Yeah, I'm also thinking the tranq guys were hired by Ben considering he knows Sayid doesn't trust him anymore - just sedate him and move on.
What about the guys who attacked Sayid at the "safe house"?
Yeah, I like that too, actually and wouldn't put it past Ben at all. Though I'm not sure he would take the chance of Sun acting out her revenge with the gun, but... I was thinking Sun's gun is useless, at least for killing Jack, because he probably can't die, right? Ben would know this.
I actually think it was Widmore, but it works pretty elegantly with Ben as well.
Ben's Lawyers
Ben's lawyers
I suppose the lawyers may have been sent by Ben... but that seems a little blunt for him. And he seems surprised when Ms. Hawking (Mrs. Faraday, let's be honest) tells him he has only 70 hours to recruit everyone - so I doubt he would be so rough before that.
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Re: the lawyers
Re: Initial Observations
About Dan and Miles--I think you're right. I think ProfO might have suggested that connection for Miles last year? The Dan connection was a cool surprise :-)
Some follow-ups on those points: Where they both born on the island, and the birth difficulties happened only after the incident? This explains why they aren't going all nose-bleedy from the time jumps, but why is it happening to Charlotte? The fact that she couldn't remember her Mother's maiden name is significant. Annie's daughter? It would make sense if all three of them trace parentage to the island. Does this mean that Annie left to give birth and that's why Charlotte's dying? Tangentially I notice how the names of all three of the Bronte sisters show up on the show: Charlotte, Anne, and Emily. I have no idea if that means anything, except that it connects--Charlotte, Annie, Ben and Locke's Moms.
And Dan's power--I agree that he hears through time--but why right around the moment of death? Because of the purge? or the incident? Some kind of trauma that Miles went through as a kid that focussed him on that moment (similar to Ben's focus on his Mom's death in childbirth).
Whispers--are them? Question--did Des hear Sawyer knock, or only Dan? Maybe the rest of them can't appear to those moving linearly--but are only showing up as whispers or visions. And did Des hear Dan because he is Dan's constant, because of something special about Dan, something about Des (which Dan drew attention to), or all of the above?
What makes Des different? Is he the only one who has been able to time and space jump? If so, why--being at the center of the hatch kablooey? And this specialness I think is what means he saves everyone--the turning of the key was only one step.
Recap--I noticed that too. And also that they said several times that Ben is "a bad guy." I'm inclined at this point (given their denials about time travel in the past) to say that maybe we should always hear the producers through bizzaro world speak. Unless it's a double-bluff! Curse them!
Oh and--I love the Miles and Sawyer snarkfest!
Whispers
Just one more thought about that. Remembering that Ethan and Locke interacted--so it's clear that the time-jumpers can be seen by at least some people. I wonder whether the Others will turn out to be able to see them. but the Losties won't? That is that Ethan could see Locke, but LinearSawyer couldn't see him?
Rousseau hears whispers. The Losties do. But have any of the Others?
Juliet
I don't think we've seen any of the Others hearing whispers - except Juliet, who was only slightly an Other in "The Other Woman" - and that's probably an important distinction.
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Miles power
I think Miles was definitely born on the island, perhaps before the incident (the incident possibly being the penetration of the donkey wheel room?) - I think the timeline matches up correctly there. Heh, if Miles was raised on the island he was likely traumatized in some way, but could the fact that he was born on the island be the reason he has the ability to hear dead people? If so, should be interesting to see what's going on with Aaron.
Miles power
Yeah--Oh wait...that was him at the beginning right? So he was born on the island--and you're right, before the incident which exposed. the donkey wheel.
The hearing things--does it seem like what he hears are always last thoughts, dying thoughts? So why is he hooked in temporally to that moment?
Still thinking about why Charlotte out of all them is suffering from the temporal jumps. What's protecting Sawyer for instance?
Charlotte's suffering - a connection to Horace?
Jaz, Charlotte's bleeding out of her left nostril is identical to that of Horace Godspeed (when Locke dreamed about him chopping down trees in season 4).
Charlotte has been on the island before; Sawyer (I'm posing) has not. She is still trying to pinpoint the location of her birth - which Miles sortof confirmed when he said "what do I mean?"
Nosebleed sequence
re: Nosebleed sequence
re: Nosebleed sequence
I watched again last night and realized that if Dan is right that time on island affects who's getting them first then both Miles and Charlotte have to have been on the island longer than 3 years (Juliet) and Charlotte got it quite a bit before Miles so it seems like her stay would have been extensive enough that being young doesn't explain why she wouldn't remember.
Alias Jones
LC: who do you suppose are the military guys that sneak up on Sawyer and Juliet ? I think his name patch reads "Jones" - could that have been Rousseau's science team from 1989?
Who are those guys?