The runway seems to have served...

Hey it just occurs to me--a good reason to have Frank piloting too...

I think whoever is arranging this (and Richard would also be my guess) would know that some of them at least would not be "landing" but "flashing."  Hurely, Kate, Jack.  If Sayid and Sun haven't, I wonder why?  I know Prof was speculating that Sun wasn't in her original state (pregnant)--but if she's playing Rose here?

I do think Locke is back to life--I wonder if that means anything as far as the time frame of the island--between 2004 and 2008 (when Locke died)?  Can he only be alive in a time frame prior to his death?  Safety measures being taken--I think the body had to be perserved--Ben seemed to be protecting it too.  Strangely like damage to the body couldn't be repaired (though death could)?  Wouldn't he have been embalmed though?  

I thought Jin and Sun got it on in Season 1 and she got pregnant ON the island? Hurly even gives them a raised set of eyebrows as if saying "good job dude." If anyone is standing in for someone, its Kate for Claire - or did I miss something?

I believe Sun and Sayid did flash back with Jack, Hurly and Kate - they just haven't been found yet. Jack had to run a distance to save Hurly in the lagoon. Its therefore very logical that Sun and Sayid were thrown a distance in another direction - where they were probably captured by Dharma or the original Hostiles.

Regarding Locke, I think it would be very cool if he is alive, resurrected, specifically. Because he is special. Up until now, they've done a great job of writing him as a pathetic character. Now its time for him to show why he is special, as in "a great man."

But the reason why Dharma wanted to manipulate time could also be for the intended purpose to bring back people mankind needs for some purpose. If we follow that path of thought, then Locke can only seem to be alive because he has been brought back to a time before his death.

Stip, you're right--it's possible that that was the moment that Sun got pregnant, but it's also possible that she was pregnant already from her affair.  Juliet tells her that the baby was conceived on the island, but she could have been lying. 

I think Prof was speculating that Sun could have been pregnant while on 815 and thus did not flash along with Hurley, Kate, and Jack because she was not in the same state on 316.

Hmm, we don't know what's happened with Sayid and Sun yet, but let's generalize from those we know--Hurley, Kate, Jack, Ben, & Locke.

The three that flashed:

Are all members of 815, and they are all proxies for someone else on 815 when aboard 316: Hurley for Charlie, Kate for Claire, Jack for Sawyer.

Ben & Locke: Ben not a member of 815, but proxy for Hurley.  Locke is a member of 815 and is a proxy for Christian.

Locke is not a member of the O6 though.

Sun and Sayid--are members of 815, members of O6.  Sayid is proxy for Kate, and Sun (I've been arguing) for Rose.

So according to that they should have flashed too (if I've got the variables right).

I agree with all of the above except for Ben and Locke. They may have been proxies, but I still hold they did not flash to the 1970's, but landed with flight 316 - in some other time (sorry, best I can do to fixate their time).

And the thought about Juliet was lying to Sun. Oh man, it would crush me as I have come to embrace Juliet. When she performs the examination on Sun, Juliet was in the middle of venturing off on her own as a double agent, pretending to be working for Ben, but looking for a way to get off the island. I just can't wrap my head around it. So I'm a doubter on that one.

To clarify something above: Hurley as proxy for Charlie. Hurly is for Hurly, the guitar is for Charlie.

Here's a question for you: when we catch up with Sayid, will he be wearing the handcuffs? 

I don't think Ben and Locke flashed to the 1970s.  I think they're in some time between 2004-2008.  I was using them to try to nail down the variables--and what they don't have in common with Hurley, Jack, and Kate is--Locke is not a member of the O6 and Ben neither a member of the O6 or the 815.  Sun and Sayid though on the variables--proxy (check), O6 (check) and 815 (check)--so I think they'll be in the 70s as well.

Juliet--I'm with ya on that one.

And that's a good point 'bout Hurley, 'cept it seemed that Ben was proxy for Hurley at least in the barely getting to the plane on time slot.  Who knows, maybe the whole one to one correspondence thing ain't workin' anywho.

Heh, well my guess on Sayid if he's paralleling Kate would be no.

I think whoever is arranging this (and Richard would also be my guess) would know that some of them at least would not be "landing" but "flashing."

Jaz this is a very good point (as is Kat's about needing a safe landing for a dead man). If whoever is behind the landing strip (let's assume it was Richard for discussion sake) knows that some of the people on the flight need the strip to land safely then wouldn't he also know the details of how they're returning and why? If that's the case why didn't Ben know them too? And if he did know them, why did he need Eloise Hawking's help at all? It certainly didn't seem as if Ben had all the answers at any time off the island.

Also keep in mind that Caesar said that Jack and Kate disappeared right before his eyes so the O6 weren't even on the flight at that point. That means that if the run way was real, and it's purpose was to allow a safe landing, then someone else on flight 315 is the real purpose behind the crash and must be extremely important. As Kat points out, it's not likely to have been for Locke since dead man don't wear plaid and they also don't need safe landings.

Building a landing strip big enough for a 747 is a lot of work to undertake, so whoever it was for, the island must have some serious plans for them. Sawyer and Kate didn't build that alone in the few days they were there so Ben must have had a pretty big crew of workers building that strip. If Prof is right and this was the purpose of the it then wouldn't Juliet have a lot of questions when she first learned of the thing? Does that mean she still knows more than she's letting on? If this turns out to really be a landing strip then my suspicion of Juliet will be back to a very high level! She was a little to cavalier about it  for someone who didn't understand or agree with what they were doing. 

I still think that Locke's body needs to make it there intact and that's at least one reason why they need to be able to make a safe landing so I do think he needs a safe landing even though dead.  There have been lots of things on the show about bodies and the reappearance of the dead--so maybe it's been important for a body to make it intact and maybe it also has to be a murdered body (which might eliminate Christian?)... I dunno and I don't know the explanation, it just seems like that's been a direction that might eventually yield an explanation.

I like the idea that there's someone else on the plane that needs to have a safe landing though.  And it fits with what Prof said about the way oracles work.  I don't think Ben's completely in the know on this (Hawking seems clearly to be his "superior" in that regard and maybe Richard is too).

Good point about Juliet too.

...Juliet lied to Sun about her baby being Jin's because she knew Sun had to leave the island and eventually be on flight 316... but Richard (or someone) knew Sun wouldn't be "zapped" because she wouldn't be pregnant on the return flight, so he arranged for the runway to be constructed for her.

But let's not forget... the Others seem to revere John... that might be enough to give him a soft landing whether or not he "needs" it.

I'm not sure why, but that outcome isn't resonating well with me. I'd rather there be consistency and ressurecting back to life isn't consistent with what's happened so far on the island.

So, I was thinking the same about the the time stuff explaining why John appears to be alive and not an intangible person like Christian, or Jacob.

But I'm resistant to even that outcome... -sigh-

Oh by resurrecting, I meant the time thing, not some new island power.  I agree--I'm not liking the idea of new explanations introduced whenever the fancy takes 'em.  

I asked this somewhere else and I'm still not sure--do we know that Christian is intangible?  

Well, I thought Christian made an interesting comment when John asked him if he could help him up in the donkey wheel room.  He was direct and to the point - no, I can't - or something. I took it one of two ways - John either needed to do it by himself, or Christian simply could not help him because he is dead. 

But it's a good comparison to make (between John and Christian) because we know Jack touches him once and he picks up Aaron. So we know he is/can be tangible to at least his family. 

One thing I've been struggling with is how people can see John and talk to him as if he is really there, unlike anyone else who has died on the island.  

Hmm, I'm remembering that John Locke wiki page Agent linked - with the connections John has to each of the survivors (creating an analogy of Christian's tangibility with his family)...

Sooo... maybe resurrection isn't a new thing.  

Yeah, I was noticing the similarity between Christian's story and Locke's (well actually Bentham's) in the thread on that episode.

I don't know if there will be logical reason for Christian not helping Locke up, but it made me think of Christ carrying the cross and how at first no one helps him but I think someone is compelled to at last?

Yeah no one who has died on the island has come back.  I guess if the idea of the time travel bringing them back were true then if their bodies are on the island would they come back?   Still think the burial at sea is going to enter in here somewheres.

I thought that was a good connection - of Christ carrying the cross alone.

Hmmm... if John is embodying a Christ-like figure I suppose it makes sense that he would be resurrected.

And then the Hanged Man symbolism - John is finally hanged. This card I think could go a loooong ways in terms of Locke's death but one of the meanings that sticks out to me is that it symbolizes a time of suspension, not life or death. I can't help but think of Ben's lack of response when Jack asks him if he's really dead.

Yes, well said. The image of John's shadow on the wall before the camera panned to the actual "suspended" body was a very impactful way of portraying his death. The dark shadow, spooky in fact, then moving to John's body illuminated in bright light, a symbol of his resurrection. 

Thus John, Flight 316 for the new John, a great man John? ...and his Apostles?

... ageless man?  John couldn't just continue aging after being resurrected right?

Could that by why Richard doesn't age?